They both have well presented conceptual discussions of what I described, and the included math is not overwhelming, or even necessary to make the point.

"We did, however, have conceptual discussions, aimed at resolving the differences between us," he said.

The president of the United Federation of Teachers, Sandra Feldman, said that while she had only been involved in conceptual discussions, she found the plan worth trying.

Bush Administration officials have said, for example, that Mr. Bush may engage in "philosophical" or "conceptual" discussions with the Mr. Gorbachev about lower troop levels in Europe.

In that context, there will be a broad, conceptual philosophical discussion of force posture in Europe.

It is only then, she suggested, that the couple should have the more conceptual discussions about plans for the future or retirement and how to pay for them.

Tannenbaum, speaking by telephone from his home in Houston, said he had had conceptual discussions with five or six other teams and would talk to those teams this week.

Phillips said he and the Mets' owners have had "conceptual discussions about the structure of a deal," but that nothing will be announced on his contract until Monday at the earliest.

He added, "Precisely because there was little practical business to be done, the element of confidence had to emerge from conceptual discussions."

Asked if "formal" could be translated loosely, Phillips said: "All I've had are conceptual discussions.